Writers: Finding Artists

[Jason Rodriguez]

I'm not claiming to be an expert at this but I certainly have my own thoughts and opinions on finding artists and it seems to have worked so far. So I figured I'd start up a thread on how I do it and if anyone wants to chime in please feel free. I'm not going to post everything at one time. Chris and I teach a class on finding and working with artists for our Writing for Comics class at the Bethesda Writer's Center and I'll be using the lesson plan and hand-outs for that class as a guide for this discussion.

Here's the PDF: http://www.eximiouspress.com/ArtistHandOut.pdf

The first three pages outline how to approach an artist and how and when to work with them. After that there are sample emails that I've sent out to artists and their responses. This was for when I was doing Postcards and I should note that I had met all of these artists in the past with the exception of Tom Beland. The last couple of pages are panels I pulled out of scripts that were submitted to me back when I was submissions editor for Western Tales of Terror. We used them as examples of how writers often write scripts that are either intimidating or just down-right funny for artists and explained how the script is your final test for the artist and if you fuck that up, well, goodbye artist.

So for this first post I'll just start with the intro from the handout:

Question: When Should You Find an Artist for Your Project?
Answer: A year ago.

Here’s the deal – very few artists want to draw your story. They want buy in. They want creative freedoms. Coming to an artist with a 96-page script is like presenting them with shackles. It’s a job, no matter how good the script is. And people get paid for a job. The fun gets sucked out. The collaboration gets sucked out. Everything takes on this “production house” feel.

Honestly – you should have already found an artist. Artists, actually. I email a new artist everyday just to tell them I like their work. Just to see what they’re working on next. I follow-up with most of them, always keep their schedules in the back of my head. If I know a project is winding down I ask them what they have coming up next. If there’s an opening in their schedule, then I try to work a collaboration. Maybe I have a project that’s perfect for them. Maybe they have an idea I can write. Whatever the situation I’m always prepared to jump into a collaboration with an artist at any moment.

So…how do we do it?

This is really the crux of everything else in that handout. The problem is that WAY too many writers sit down, write a script, and then go to some message board and write:

Hey everybody,

I'm looking for a few artists to work on short stories for my website XXXXX, and possibly to be collected into a print anthology if I can get enough together. I want to try and diversify the content a bit, so check out my work and if you think you can offer something different, feel free to apply.

Ideally, I'd like someone who can at least pencil and ink their own work, but the more you can do the better. If you're interested feel free to drop me a line at xxxx@yahoo.com. Please include samples or links and your page rates. Thanks a lot.

-A

or

Sequential artist needed to create pilot illustrations for a graphic novel based on an Asian war hero. This presentation will be submitted to major comic book publishers. Applicants must submit a sketch based on one of the images found at xxxxxx or their submission will not qualify.

ART STYLE:

Should be similar (but not limited to) artists such as Mike Perkins and Steve Epting. The art for this book must project a very epic and cinematic feel; think 300, only more realistic. It’s going to be full of action (battleships exploding, heads being chopped off, etc.) and so the artist must be able to draw out detailed full-scale battle sequences. Scenery is also a very important element of this book and so the artist must be able to illustrate very vivid and surreal settings and backgrounds.

STORY SYNOPSIS:

This is a four-issue limited series that tells the story of xxxxx, a warrior of real and epic proportions sworn by duty and honor to protect his people at all costs from the devastating and brutal Japanese regime that threatens to conquer his country. Having never been defeated in battle despite being vastly outnumbered, xxxx has gone down in history as one of most brilliant and revered military leaders.

SCOPE OF THE WORK:

The pilot presentation will consist of the following;

1.) Three-four (3-4) fully illustrated pages from a finished script.
2.) Five (5) fully illustrated character designs.
3.) One (1) cover concept.

COMPENSATION:

Compensation is negotiable and artists will be fully credited for their work. Please submit all work to xxxxx@aol.com

Those are both real ads I just pulled off of one website and I didn't have to look hard at all. You see, the problem is, the moment you post that up you're looking for a work-for-hire artist. You specifically state that you have a story you want them to draw. You strip out their creative buy-in, you're not offering them much in the way of exposure, and you're compensation level is as small as you can make it. In order to get a good artist to do a WFH thing for you you need to pay them quite handsomely. So you end up with an artist who's OK and will either deliver bad pages or they'll "flake out."

"Flake out" is a term writers tend to use when they can't understand why an artist they found on the internet and spoke to three times over email decided to ditch their project for another one that probably sounded more exciting or paid more.

The point is, if you're looking for an artist for your project you should have started a year ago. The first step in finding an artist is integrating yourself into his or her scene, becoming friends with the person, seeing if there even is a potential to work together, understand what they like, understand their schedule, meet them if possible, and then test the waters.

That's a collaboration. And a collaboration will almost always land you a much better artist that's actually into the story and wants to see it succeed as much as you do. They have creative buy-in from the start. They fully understand the vision and add to it. They get a script that's fully tailored to their style. Everyone's happy!

So does that mean it takes year before you get any project off the ground? Of course not, you don't romance one artist at a time. You don't even look at it like romancing artists. You should be contacting a new artist every day - and that's what I'll get to in my next post.

Part 2.
Part 3.

[Chris]

This is a big topic that keep recurring in our class and while there aren't any quick and easy answers, I think understanding the pitfalls is a huge step.

There is also always the quick answer that if you want an artist NOW for a script you've written, you've just entered the work-for-hire scenario. And that's ok, IF you can pay an artist for their work.

Otherwise, the answer to finding an artist becomes 2 things:

1) Patience
2) Flexing your interpersonal skills

[jabbadac]

99% of artists are not capable of completing art for a long script. So if they flake out, thats pretty much to be expected. Its probably easier to divide things into more managable bites, so it will seem like a less daunting task.

[ETKeeling]

I think it is more that 99% of artists have bills to pay and other jobs to work on so a full script is hard to finish without compensation unless the artist is fully dedicated to the project.
It is best when working with a new writer or new artist to do something small together first so that you get comfortable before tackling an epic.

[Jason Rodriguez]

I agree with both of you. That's why I tend to advocate testing out the waters and making sure the relationship is working and that it services the story.

[Chris]

I see no reason to obligate an artist to drawing a long-form story with pay only on the back end. Every publisher I can think of only needs to see 5 or 6 pages of art before they accept a submission. That's not unreasonable to ask someone who you have a good relationship with.

Even if you self-publish, there are steps you can take to ensure you don't lose a lot of money. Submit a book to Diamond Distribution and get approval. They'll ask retailers for orders and you'll know exactly how many you will sell. That way, you don't overprint. You will invest in an ISBN number and potentially in ads or promotion. But you'll also make back what you invest and ideally hand the profits over to your artist(s). That's just ONE way to start out.

[Jason Rodriguez]

Continuing this...the next section of the handout, where to find artists:

1)   Finding Them
   a.   Local Scene
      i.   Does your area have a comic creator group? DC does…
      ii.   Ask your comic shop retailer if he knows of any artists in the area
      iii.   Use local message boards/live journal groups – just try to see who’s out there
   b.   Conventions
      i.   Visit every table. Talk to every creator.
      ii.   The bar – if you don’t hang out with creators after the show you might as well not go.
      iii.   Panels – creators like when you go see their panels and it gives you something to talk about if you bump into them later
   c.   The internet
      i.   Websites for creators…
         1.   http://www.panelandpixel.com – lots of aspiring creators mixing it up with seasoned pros
         2.   http://www.digitalwebbing.com – lots of aspiring creators mixing it up with aspiring creators
         3.   http://www.deviantart.com – lots of artists, difficult to find the perfect one
         4.   http://www.penciljack.com – lots of artists
         5.   http://www.comicspace.com – pretty quite, honestly, but every comic creator in the universe signed up for it at some point. Lots of profiles to go through
         6.   http://www.flightcomics.com/ - Kazu is attracting some of the most promising artists in comics to his site.
      ii.   Creator’s website
         1.   Personal message boards: Brian Michael Bendis, Image Comics, Brian K. Vaughn, Steve Niles, and Mark Millar all have active message boards with fans and creators on them
         2.   Blogs: Just do a google search for “sketchblog.” Click on as many links as you can. Most sketchblogs link to other sketchblogs.
         3.   Live Journal/MySpace/Facebook: Here’s a hint: Search for Warren Ellis on any social networking site and then go through his friend list. You will fins every comic creator that is using that social networking site on his friend list.

Local scene - that's easy. You're already on the DCC message board so that's a good place to start. If you don't have something like the DCC (or even if you do), ask your comic shop owner/employee if there are any artists that frequent the shop. Announce yourself as a writer that's looking to make comics. This probably won't work in LA or NYC where the owner would say, "Uh...yeah...all the artists come in here" but you may have better results in cities where there's not an established scene. If that doesn't work, almost every networking site has a group dedicated to your city - go see if there are any artists hanging around there. That doesn't mean you should post the "Anyone want to draw my story?" message I talked about in the original post - I'll talk about what to write in my third post.

Conventions. Eventually you'll have to go to a convention. A lot of folks make the mistake of going to a convention with no agenda just to see what happens. That's what I did at my convention. Wizard World Philly. I left that place without leaving any sort of impression on anyone and a stack of books I purchased but never read. I've since learned that you should go with plans to meet people. Any artists that you've been talking to online, in particular, try to have a drink with them at the show. Schedule ten-minute meetings, even if it's just to shoot-the-shit. Then, the time when you're not busy, go to every table in artists alley and talk to everyone. Tell them you like their work, figure out what they're working on, etc. Yeah they'll try to get you to buy something. And if you like it you probably should buy it. But don't feel obligated - especially if the person you're talking to is a total douche. There's no point in trying to become friends with a douche.

Panels are also good. Not the big movie-centric or Marvel/DC mega panels that EVERYONE goes to. Panels on creating comics. Panels on current events or particular types of stories. Panels with a smaller audience but panel members who love the medium. Talk to the panel members afterwards. If you see them at the bar try to expand on some of the things that were discussed. You see what you're doing? You're being a human. I know this is sometimes forgotten and I'm not trying to be condescending but by integrating yourself into the community, by showing an interest in people's work an ideas, by actually being a FRIEND to people you'll soon find that collaborations come naturally. So you end up making comics AND making friends at the same time.

And finally there is, of course, the internet. Creators use the internet. There are a million places to find them. Do you just go where the artists are? Of course not. You go where the creators are. You should be trying to become friends with all types of creators. Artists, writers, editors, letterers, etc. Even if you get your comic illustrated that's just the first step - you need to know other people as well. There are so many artists on so many sites on the internet. As I mentioned, you should write one of them a day, build a solid base of artists and writers around you. As far as what to say, how to say it, and proper etiquette, I'll get to that in my next post.

[Jacob Warrenfeltz]

Jason,

I really like what your saying about finding an artist BEFORE you write your script.  You might be a balls out great writer, but if a writer comes to me with a finished script that I have had no contribution to there's no way I feel any sense of attachment to the project. THEREFORE when I flake out and decide that I don't really want to commit the next five years of my life to your grand epic vision I have no emotional investment to your project.  That is, unless, you are paying a page rate for the work. I think that's a very important and smart point Jason.  Good jorb!

[oletheros]

As a writer engaged in a multi-year project centered around the creation of original graphic novels, I feel like I have some insight in this topic.

The important thing for writers to understand is that in the supply and demand marketplace of comics creation, they are not in demand. Any forum dedicated to comic books creation has at least one dusty post from a writer, looking for a creator. I know I have one in the DC Comics Conspiracy archives.

Artists are in demand. If you want to sell your story to them, you have to figure out what they want to see in your story. There are no hard and fast submission guidelines, but this are what has worked for me:

Artists are visual. In my experience, they have an easier time visualizing something if they can see a sketch (even a bad thumbnail) than reading it on a piece of paper. In one instance, I explained to an artist that I had a script and that I wanted to get it thumbnailed. He agreed, and we sat down for two hours and we figured out panel placement and layout and such. That was the end of his involvement in the project, but the result was that I had rough pages that I could show to people so they could see what I was asking them to do.

Obviously, the ability to break your story down into pages and panels and rough thumbnails on your own is not insignificant. It puts your story into a structure that is accessible to an interested artist. It also helps you identify where your story can be broken into discrete chunks.

While it is ideal to have a single artist work on a single piece, this is rare. Working with multiple artists on different portions of your story is a legitimate means of getting your work produced. In fact, as a creator, you are stifled only by your own imagination. If you can figure out a way to get your work produced that does not involve a penciller, inker or colorist - go for it.

Remember that you are working in a medium that is dedicated to sequential art. Most any kind of art can be made sequentially. Anything that tells a story that requires pages to be turned satisfies this requirement.

For example, I have had an enthusiastic response from photographers when I approached them about making comic books with me. Finding models to pose for the scenes takes some effort, but you can shoot ten pages of material in an hour or two. (If you figure that a good artist can draw a page a day, this is a big deal.)

Another area where I have had success is at tattoo conventions. I asked one artist if he'd ever thought about drawing comics and he said "yes, and I've been looking for a writer forever." He's doing the art for my half of the Conspiracy Sci Fi anthology. The beauty of tattoo artists is that they are used to working on other people's material without regard for "artistic buy-in."

The third place that writers looking for artists might want to try is Art-o-Matic. There are eight floors of artists who are looking for creative outlets. Many of their statements say "Contact me for commissions." I have a big stack of contact information that I'm still going through. Chances are that someone will be willing to work with me, if I approach them correctly.

Make sure that you always have business cards with you. You never know when you are going to meet someone that might be in line with what you want to do. One of my co-workers took a look at my completed graphic novel and told me that he wanted to work with me. (This also demonstrates the "you sound more convincing if you've actually finished something" premise at work.)

[Jason Rodriguez]

2)   Getting in Touch
   a.   Email’s really the best way to get in touch for somebody for the first time
      i.   Phone’s kind of creepy
      ii.   Snail mail could be considered creepy unless you’re sending something that’s not creepy
      iii.   Showing up at the person’s house can get you arrested.
   b.   What shouldn’t you say in your first email?
      i.   Any variation of “I want to work with you.”
   c.   Romance them. Say you love their work. Ask them what they’re working on next. Ask where you can get their book. Congratulate them on some new project. If your first email is, “Hey, can you draw something for me,” you’ll either get no response or a polite “no”.

Continuing this...

I think the number one reason writers have a hard time finding an artist is because they find someone they like and they send them an email saying something along the line of, "Hey - I love your work. Blah, blah, blah. By the way, I have this project that I'd think you'd do SO well on. We should totally work together."

That's like asking for sex on the first date. Actually, that's not true. That's like asking for sex immediately after introducing yourself.

"Come here often? My name's Jason. Let's fuck."

I don't know, that may work sometimes but chances are it won't lead to a lasting relationship. Just a guess - I have no data to back that up.

It's kind of the same thing as going to a message board and posting that you're looking for an artist except you come off a person that's playing the friend card only to get free work. I don't know, I think it's sleazier than the message board post. And I'm not a big fan of the message board post.

Look, as mentioned, you're building friendships. Your testing the water. You need to assess that:

a) You two actually CAN work together
b) You two actually WANT to work together
c) There's a project mulling around that you BOTH want to work on

You don't get that from one email. It takes time.

So what should you say in your email? Just be human. "Hey, I loved x, y, z about your art." "I picked up _____ from the comic shop and loved how you did ____." "What have you been working on?" "What are you working on next?" "I saw in an interview you said ______, I was wondering what you think about ______."

Artists aren't drawing machines just like you're not a writing machine. We (artists and writers) don't live to make comics, we make comics because we like to make comics. Collaborations are serious business. They're time consuming. They have to be something that both parties involved want to commit their time to. So treat it that way - don't make it seem like you're willing to work with anyone. You sell yourself short, you sell your story short, and even if it works the story will suffer in the end.

3)   Being Persistent
   a.   Not persistent in asking if they can draw your story once a day.
   b.   Persistent as in every time you see something new and awesome from them, tell them.
   c.   You see what we’re doing here? We’re building a friendship.

Not a whole lot to say here. Just keep in touch. If you read an interview or see a comic from an artist you've talked to in the past, let them know. Ask about their convention schedule. Let them know you plan on looking them up. Nurture it into a friendship - that should be what you're going for, anyway.

4)   Meeting Them (If Possible)
   a.   You’ll be amazed what people will agree to after a couple of beers.
   b.   Seriously…nothing will ever replace meeting someone face-to-face and just talking about ideas you have.
   c.   Listening, Listening, Listening – always listen for these words: “I’m so sick of this project, I want to do ________.” Then you say, “I’d love to do ________, too. Maybe we should work together?

Again, not much to say here. Common sense. If you're going to a convention try to find out which of your artist friends will be there. This will take your friendship off-line and you'll start to develop a real-world friendship. Have a beer with the person. Give them a copy of a book if you're working on one. Show them a particular gem you picked up at the show provided it's not furry porn.

There is one thing I really want to talk about, though, and that's listening. The whole crux of the second half of our course is about listening to artists more. You'll be amazed how many times I've seen an artist say something like, "I hate working on this fucking book...I just want to do a western or something" and the writer sits there with a look on his face that says, "Westerns suck." That's what I like to call a blown opportunity. Just listen. Always listen. Listen to writers, artists, and editors and see if there's something you can jump on. That's how you get books made. Don't spend all of your time talking about YOUR awesome ideas. Just shut-up and listen for a minute.

I'll finish this part up now. If you have a good relationship going, you feel like you can work with this person, there's three ways to go. Pitch them one of your ideas that you think they'll be interested in. DO that whole listening them and pitch them an idea that they want to work on. Or give them a couple of ideas and see if one of them interests them; if it does, flesh it out and pitch it their way.

There's a good chance you'll still get a no. But that no can turn into a yes later on down the line. Or that no can turn into, "But I have a friend who'd really like to hear about this." Or that no can turn into, "Why don't we do this instead." Or could just stay as a no. But who cares, you're contacting a new artist everyday, right? 365.25 new artists a year. If you're keeping in touch with them the collaborations will begin. Patience and persistence. And never, ever beg.

That's really all I have on FINDING ARTISTS. I'll continue with working with an artist at some point.

[Jason Rodriguez]

As a writer engaged in a multi-year project centered around the creation of original graphic novels, I feel like I have some insight in this topic.

The important thing for writers to understand is that in the supply and demand marketplace of comics creation, they are not in demand. Any forum dedicated to comic books creation has at least one dusty post from a writer, looking for a creator. I know I have one in the DC Comics Conspiracy archives.

Artists are in demand. If you want to sell your story to them, you have to figure out what they want to see in your story. There are no hard and fast submission guidelines, but this are what has worked for me:

Artists are visual. In my experience, they have an easier time visualizing something if they can see a sketch (even a bad thumbnail) than reading it on a piece of paper. In one instance, I explained to an artist that I had a script and that I wanted to get it thumbnailed. He agreed, and we sat down for two hours and we figured out panel placement and layout and such. That was the end of his involvement in the project, but the result was that I had rough pages that I could show to people so they could see what I was asking them to do.

Obviously, the ability to break your story down into pages and panels and rough thumbnails on your own is not insignificant. It puts your story into a structure that is accessible to an interested artist. It also helps you identify where your story can be broken into discrete chunks.

While it is ideal to have a single artist work on a single piece, this is rare. Working with multiple artists on different portions of your story is a legitimate means of getting your work produced. In fact, as a creator, you are stifled only by your own imagination. If you can figure out a way to get your work produced that does not involve a penciller, inker or colorist - go for it.

Remember that you are working in a medium that is dedicated to sequential art. Most any kind of art can be made sequentially. Anything that tells a story that requires pages to be turned satisfies this requirement.

For example, I have had an enthusiastic response from photographers when I approached them about making comic books with me. Finding models to pose for the scenes takes some effort, but you can shoot ten pages of material in an hour or two. (If you figure that a good artist can draw a page a day, this is a big deal.)

Another area where I have had success is at tattoo conventions. I asked one artist if he'd ever thought about drawing comics and he said "yes, and I've been looking for a writer forever." He's doing the art for my half of the Conspiracy Sci Fi anthology. The beauty of tattoo artists is that they are used to working on other people's material without regard for "artistic buy-in."

The third place that writers looking for artists might want to try is Art-o-Matic. There are eight floors of artists who are looking for creative outlets. Many of their statements say "Contact me for commissions." I have a big stack of contact information that I'm still going through. Chances are that someone will be willing to work with me, if I approach them correctly.

Make sure that you always have business cards with you. You never know when you are going to meet someone that might be in line with what you want to do. One of my co-workers took a look at my completed graphic novel and told me that he wanted to work with me. (This also demonstrates the "you sound more convincing if you've actually finished something" premise at work.)

Well - I do want to point out that the stuff I'm talking about with my posts is a technique that will make it so that you don't have to resort to fummetti comics or having multiple artists for a single story. That kind of stuff tends to be distracting. The beauty of a true collaboration is that you're sharing a vision with an artist, you both have buy-in (that's not a bad thing - it's actually the ideal), and you work together to create a singular body of work.

I do agree with the Art-o-Matic and business card thing. Although I wouldn't approach a comic collaboration as a commission.

[oletheros]

Well - I do want to point out that the stuff I'm talking about with my posts is a technique that will make it so that you don't have to resort to fummetti comics or having multiple artists for a single story. That kind of stuff tends to be distracting.

I feel that a wider viewpoint cannot hurt. After all, this is meant to inform and empower writers. Frankly, finding an artist is a challenge and writers should not be afraid to get their work done because of concerns about whether it was made by the right kinds of artists.

As long as a writer is on the outside and just getting started, photographers and other artists are just as important to court as traditional cartoonists.

[Kevin_Huff]

Jason,

I really like what your saying about finding an artist BEFORE you write your script.  You might be a balls out great writer, but if a writer comes to me with a finished script that I have had no contribution to there's no way I feel any sense of attachment to the project. THEREFORE when I flake out and decide that I don't really want to commit the next five years of my life to your grand epic vision I have no emotional investment to your project.  That is, unless, you are paying a page rate for the work. I think that's a very important and smart point Jason.  Good jorb!

As a writer I feel like if I bring you something it's not finished ready to be printed copy. I just want to get a story down with some sort of vision for how it looks in my head. I expect and want you (you as in any artist) to become an active creator of that vision and collaboratively write the story.

Anyway - I've been mulling this whole thing over and have come to a conclusion which seems logical to me.

My new collaboration process, which is based on my new job working in proposals, is active red, blue, gold teaming on a project. Kickoff meeting somewhere where actually sitting down with each other and going over the story and structure, marketing, deadlines etc. etc. Meeting up again and red teaming drafts etc.

I'm sick of the email culture of collaboration in regards to comics. It's usually not very productive as a planning tool and neither side gets what they really want across in an email ... or even a script ... unless they write a novel which the other party probably won't even read.

lots of good ideas, Jason

[maljones]

"I'm sick of the email culture of collaboration in regards to comics. It's usually not very productive as a planning tool and neither side gets what they really want across in an email ..."

Can you elaborate on this a little bit? In any comic (and illustration for that matter) gig I've worked on, email has been key. Small notes, send script notes back and forth, that kind of thing. We meet up when we can and talk on the phone, but email (and IM) is so essential it would be like cutting off an arm if I couldn't use it.

- Mal

[Kevin_Huff]

Yeah i mean it's got it's place and usefulness but as a way to get to know people and the project and really hash things out I think it's lacking, don't you?

Maybe it's just me

[Jason Rodriguez]

Yeah i mean it's got it's place and usefulness but as a way to get to know people and the project and really hash things out I think it's lacking, don't you?

Maybe it's just me

No, I agree - there's really nothing that can replace a phone call or meeting face-to-face when talking about the project. I'd put IM at number 3 and email at 4. The nice thing about email, however, is that you can send it more often without being rude. The other three methods tend to be obtrusive at times and should only be used when they need to be used...unless the artist is late. Then call that mother fucker every day.

[maljones]

Yeah i mean it's got it's place and usefulness but as a way to get to know people and the project and really hash things out I think it's lacking, don't you?

Maybe it's just me

Yeah I totally agree, thanks for clearing it up. For some reason I read that as "No more email!".

[Patrick Lewis]

My opinion is probably not helpful, but while JRod breaks it down well, this can be viewed simply as being much like dating.

1. Keep working at it.
2. Don't be a dick.
3. Luck and good word of mouth helps.

Beyond that, work begets work and every piece is practice.

See you all at the Barbecue.

Patrick.