Author Topic: Curate our photo show! (read the entire thread before you reply)  (Read 12723 times)

Offline Erin Antognoli

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2008, 12:06:44 PM »
Quote
I'm not being overly sensitive. I'm merely pointing out that your comments aren't actionable. They merely mock the art and/or artist. They don't help anyone improve or help us decide which pieces to include or not include.

And yes, I've been through hundreds of critiques by both peers and superiors. I go through them nearly every day. The good ones, while humbling, always give me something concrete to focus on improving. Your comments struck me more as self aggrandizing ridicule of others.

this was my problem as well and i agree with this completely.  critique = fine.  mocking = not fine.  if you can't say something that will better the artist or even our awareness of a real issue with the piece, then why bother? i just don't see the point in over half of those comments. they certainly do not help me as a juror.

even some of the "yes" comments were just, well, pointless.
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40 Yes ..gotta love a nice pair of breasts and what would a decent photo exhibit be without a pair.
and this is supposed to be constructive how?  unless you were being sarcastic.  and then you're still not helping with the task at hand.

Quote
Everyone here is doing a great job.  If you disagree with starvingartist's comments, why not say why you like the images you do or don't!  That would be exciting.  Let's talk about the art!

it's not that i particularly agree or disagree, as i thought most of the comments in his post were not helpful in either direction with regard to helping me form an opinion about the pieces.  art is so subjective... the same piece could be loved by some and hated by others.  hearing an *intelligent* conversation about why people feel the way they do is often enlightening.  so i stand by jesse in his attempt to get us talking about the art, and think aside from that one post, we're off to a good start.

Offline fotoobscura

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2008, 12:43:14 PM »
4
10
21
31
32
39
43

Offline Jesse

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2008, 01:03:09 PM »
Thanks Alex!  Tell me about #32?  What does this stick out as one of your picks.  To me, I see a skinny pic of an interesting looking camera or light on the wall, but it just says observation.  The color and texture is nice, but what are you seeing?


PS.  Erin, I'm gambling on sarcasm.  Emotions and tone of voice are quite hard to come across on the net.  I didn't see things as being that harsh.  When I said keep things constructive, I was more thinking of statements like, "blah blah blah they should just give up now..."  Personal opinions aren't a bad thing, they open an opportunity for discussion, which I've tried to do a few posts up.  I picked afew that I didn't agree with, and responded. 
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 01:05:25 PM by Jesse »

Offline michaeljanis

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Re: photo show pix
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2008, 01:03:32 PM »
Using the 'minds eye' as my selection criteria, works that were more surrealistic, dream-like were favored. My pix are:
1
3
5
6
9
11
22
26
28
29
31
36
40
47
50
my fav being #5.

Offline Jesse

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2008, 01:10:19 PM »
I like 5 a lot to.  It reminds me of a thought I had a few years ago, that I never came up with a way to shoot.  I really like to abstract the hell out of things, and leave a touch or just a taste of the subject in the image.  He's highlighted things nicely here with the double circle leading to the model's eye.  Not to sharp.  Not to soft.  Just nice. I also like the color range. 

StarvingArtistDC

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2008, 01:22:32 PM »
Oh, halo you are a fiesty little minx.

Who says that every word posted in here has to be helpful? That's rediculous. To write a meaningful critique of 54 images would take hours that I don't have that kinda time so I just hit the high notes with bullet points.

I like creativity and I loathe lazyness, lack of creativity and photo 101 cliche's if you don't have an original thought most people either take a self portrait of fall back on the obvious cliches. I just don't like boring images and I have no problem telling anyone their image just doesn't move me. I like your work but like all artists it's often hit or miss. When you are on..you are hot but when bored, there is no soul in your or the others work. I just saw a lot of souless pics in the ones posted.

It's great to see the reaction and the new dialog starting. I would hate to have had this thread be a list of numbers with no one with nads big enough to speak their mind. Feel free to focus your pent up artistic fervor at me ..atleast we now know that some of you actually have an opinion and a pulse.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 01:31:53 PM by StarvingArtistDC »

StarvingArtistDC

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2008, 01:41:33 PM »
graycard

Mock the art? ..ofcourse.
Mock the artist? ..never.

Not all art is good art and sub par art should be called out. If not, how do we know it's not good art?

Who said that we are all here to help? This is art DC not online therapy for wannabe artists..it's not a support group..or is it?
Art dc is a professional organization that can't coddle everyone. This is a real world website with a few real artists and in the real world not everyone gets into juried shows. Competition is tough. Lesser works just don't get in. Are they given attaboys by the jurors? hardly. The job of the curator is to cull out the ones that just don't cut it..That's what I did.

Here is a clue...the ones I say YES ..should be in the show. The ones that I say NO should not be. That's how you can decide.


If there is a piece that you disagree with me on and would like me to discuss in more detail, I'd be glad to debate it on the merits..just let me know.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 01:45:24 PM by StarvingArtistDC »

Offline jwhitsitt

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2008, 01:58:16 PM »
Ok. Ive taken a little time off to watch this thoroughly entertaining thread. Im kind of glad to see someone get beat up for being contrarian other than me ;)

wrt StarvingArtists comments: I actually thought it was nice to read someone's honest, gut reaction to things. While that gut reaction might reflect a less-than-angelic or classy personality (or might not - I dont know him...but first/early impressions and all...)...I still got to read about someone's human reaction...I understood far more about how the images affect StarvingArtist than almost anyone else in the thread.  So, for me, I thought it was interesting...(not implying there arent significantly better less jerky ways to approach it, but it was interesting to read)

That said (and coming from someone who speaks too quickly sometimes), I can point out that his criticism of one of my images was just not applicable.  (14 re exposure problems). It was the nature of the subject (taken through old plastic windows...that wasnt photoshopped) that was an issue. I was particularly proud of how well the exposure came out given how the real subject matter looked.  Im not mentioning this because I care either way, but just to show that initial reactions might need to be toned down...if for no other reason that there might be more to the story. No sense trashing things till you understand them. 

That all said, my pics:
52: There are hundreds....thousands...of these pics...and I havent seen one like this. And I like the colors.
50: To me, this makes something real look like something made to look real...and I like that.
42: This got a striking emotional response from me and, lately, Im also  interested in very isolated subjects with clean background like this.
38: Picked because of emotional resonance. Same with simple subjects. little does more.
32: interesting use of accident to good effect
23: It really IS a walking mango talking to a giant hand in the ground. How much more dreamlike can you get in real life?
21: love the reflection in the burn...more so than I like the church in the burn
17: ominous and enigmatic
5: Like the composition, flow here.
2: lots of awakening pics...but this is one of my favs because the appeal of the pic goes beyond the sculpture and turns it into something more.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 02:03:06 PM by jwhitsitt »
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Offline angelakleis

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2008, 02:08:47 PM »
Quote
Here is a clue...the ones I say YES ..should be in the show. The ones that I say NO should not be. That's how you can decide.

OMG, your comments, they are so damn insightful.  You've completely earned my respect. 

And, people wonder why my participation in artdc.org has dwindled. 

Offline Erin Antognoli

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2008, 02:17:24 PM »
Quote
Who says that every word posted in here has to be helpful?

i'm not expecting every word to be helpful.  but i'd settle for a few.  ;)  luckily some others posted to satisfy that.

like i said before, i did not feel personally attacked. this is a contest, after all.  you are allowed to have your opinions, and that is not what bothers me.  i personally don't expect everyone to understand or even like my work, or why i portray things the way i do.  some people get it, some don't, that's life.

and, i actually agree with you in part about things being trite.  who hasn't seen certain subjects beat to death.  but... is any art these days really 100% original?  that's a whole other topic, but i've seen just about everything before.  unless your work is some new thing that has never been done before (which i don't know because you don't have any images uploaded to the gallery), then someone out there is going to think what you do is trite, depending on the audience.  i've seen certain themes and subjects play well in some circles and be outright dismissed in others.  and what's more, sometimes i have even more respect for a piece of work that takes a trite theme and does it really well, because if they can pull it off and impress me with it, then that takes an incredible amount of skill. 

i just don't want this to turn into a big flame thread (or forum, even) where people feel it's okay to mock the work of others without providing much substance to back it up.  gut reactions are fine, but in a written forum, where there can easily be misunderstandings, it's important to articulate what you mean more carefully.  don't comment on every image if you can't say something meaningful (good or bad).  pick a few and comment on them.  i'd rather have a few quality comments than 50+ mostly worthless comments.  because while we are curating a show, this is also a community and we have to adhere to some amount of standard with regard to other people's work.  otherwise, it is a slippery slope...

i think we should all express our opinions.  just don't express a half of an opinion, because people will fill in the blanks and before you know it everything is taken out of context. 

Quote
Erin, I'm gambling on sarcasm.

i think unless it's very obvious, it's really counter-productive in this thread.  and don't worry jesse, you're doing things well here i think.  i'm really not mad at anyone, just voicing my opinion.  and i swear i'll have some comments.  just been busy today as all, and then i keep getting sucked into replying to this thread when i do come to check in...
:)

maybe this is where my entire philosophy is just wrong for curating.  i know what i like, and focus on that.  i don't dwell on things that i don't like.

Offline Jesse

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2008, 02:38:51 PM »
Let this be the last word on that for a moment because we're getting away from the project at hand.   Let's walk away with several thoughts:

We have a bunch of people doing a great job at selecting art based on their opinions.
We want  folks to post both about why they like the art or don't.  We're acting as curators here.  That's important for the project.
We must have proverbial balls to be an artist, to curate a show and critique work.  Being a curator, you are expressing your opinion, and you can't be afraid to stub a toe.
We must be able to disagree and say way with out others getting upset, since we're working as a team.
Some will have sarcastic things to say, that's the nature of the game.

A critique is a criticism or critical comment on some problem, subject, etc.  For our purposes we'll use critiques to aid in our selection of the next show.

Creativity is wonderful.  Since we are curating a show, It's important to select good art, and art that works together.

As starving artist said, never mock the artist.  But it's ok to critique work. 

This thread is quickly becoming a flame (It is there now) and let's focus that energy on the discussion of the art.   It's far too complicated to work through a thread when there are 26 discussions going on.  So If you'd like, start a separate topic on how to critique art work.   

Feel free to reference or quote this post, but to continue the discussion of art critique or curation, please do so here:
http://artdc.org/forum/index.php?topic=8155.0



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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2008, 11:26:44 PM »
Thank you Mr. jwhitsitt for the insight into your photograph.

The issue that I have with your image is purely an aesthic one from my perspective. I didn't think the blow out white section at the bottom added to the overall composition and it actually distracted from what was otherwise a nice feel to the image. A little dodge and burn to soften the harshness might offer up a more pleasing image to my eye. It's your work and you should be proud.

I've been collecting photographs for over 20 years so I know instantly what I like and what I don't like when looking at an image. I get a gut reaction and 9 times out of ten...it's spot on. I've also been supplementing my meager income by selling images to colleagues and cronies so when I look at an image, I think about it's marketability and sale potential. I know what I can sell and I also know what I could never possibly give away.

When curating a show, hopefully not only for ones fancy but with the bottom line in mind, one must select the strongest images and that is what I have done for me personally. Ofcourse no 2 people will agree on what should be in or out ..so I guess it might become a popularity contest in the end. The goal should be strong images that the community as a whole can be proud of.

Photography is the medium of the masses. Every year people flock to best buy to buy digital cameras and shoot thousands of pictures. That doesn't make you a photographer. I see a lot of naivete in the work presented here. In time, your style will mature and you will learn your craft. You just aren't there yet. Taking a picture is a lot like batting. Not everyone can bat .400 and not all pictures are worthy of display. Often, the one worst qualified to judge is the person who took it. You are in love with the image. You are connected to it..as well you should be but just because you love it doesn't make it a quality photo.

To those of you that don't make the show, this time, keep shooting. Not everyone will like everything but don't be discouraged. Digital picture taking is virtuall free..go out and practice and develop into one of the more senior big kids on the ArtDC block and then you can bust some heads the next time a poster gets a little to big for his britches and wakes up a few people.

Until then, best of luck to the contestants and I hope you pick a great show.

Keep shooting.




Offline urf

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2008, 11:48:18 PM »
And thank you mr/ms starving for insight into your selection process and criteria.  It's interesting to hear that approach to judging photography.  There are certainly many approaches to the medium, and many uses for the product.  I went to a school that focused on a classical approach to art.  That included the photography curriculum.  I'm not trained in color (at all in photography) other than what I learned for painting.  I was taught history and we all used rudimentary light capturing devices (so no autofocus, no automatic settings) which was about process.  I'm not saying that this is THE way to learn nor am I saying that I'm a good photographer because of it.  But I was never trained in the type of photography you're attracted to and your clientele are interested in purchasing.  The reason I never pursued photography professionally is because I never wanted to hate it.  After hearing your report on the state of the medium, I'm thrilled I made the choice I did. 

For the record I chose the images I chose because I felt they were closest (imho) to a continuation of the spirit of fine art photography as I understand it.  Perhaps I overqualified my statement, but there it is.  :)

If I didn't chose your image, it's not because I thought it sucked (I didn't chose either of the ones of mine that made the first cut either) but because it didn't fit with the smaller group I thought made a good core.  It's curating a show, not saying which photos I like.

Peace out.  :)

Offline Jesse

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2008, 01:44:40 AM »
Speaking of methodology, how many of you folks printed the first topic in this thread, and re-arranged the works like a puzzle to really visualize the show as a whole?  It's tough to get the real feel or existence of the art through an image, even more difficult with images you like or don't for a show in sequence.  Why not arrange things in a mock-up?  It's on my list!

Offline rrebold

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2008, 10:01:35 AM »
My picks were also selected with the “mind’s eye” as the main criteria and guiding force.  My mind and dreams are of course surreal; nothing in the mind’s eye is real.  Everything is a distortion due to dirty contact lenses, channel-surfing, nostalgia, alcohol, caffeine, hormones, hairy caveman fingers on the shutter release, varying degrees of consciousness, hopes, fears, and desires.  It is fickle and irrational, so I won’t even comment on the great picts that I didn’t select.  People in my dreams are sometimes naked, especially the women (perhaps it saves time, I don’t know).  I dream in color, B&W, sepia and sometimes even in hand color-tinted nostalgia.

9 -  Was attracted by the monkey mouth formed by the intersection of the projection and the models; a third something that didn’t exist before.  Mona Lisa is trite but also as much a cultural icon as a piece of art at this point and is as fair game as the Campbell’s soup can.
15 - Holy shit, if this sort of thing isn’t an occasional part your waking or sleeping nightmares you either don’t know your history or have an unhealthy trust in governments/humanity.  The sepia, soft focus and camera vignette give the impression of an old period Brownie or even a covert camera.
21 - The burn on this one invokes the “Cinema Paradiso” film fire scene and makes one wonder if the car crashed and burned.  Not to mention it looks like my hometown in the rearview.
22 - I Like how the artist has created depth and movement in this piece which is much stronger than the sum of its disjointed parts.  Unfortunately, I’ve had swirly, spinning dreams like this, perhaps fever induced. 
26 - Something out of a dream, slightly sinister, begs the questions of what kind of craft disembark from here, what do they carry and how far do they go.
27 - The Holga multiple exposure works on several levels, visual pun, something without a  specific time period, and the progression of the natural lines in the photo carry the eyes across.
36 - Like the tonality and the arrangement.  It wouldn’t work if it were rotated right side up, but as it is presents a fearful or judgmental God's eye view of the below.
37 - Manmade and natural; the housefire represents another phase of the construction supplies provided by the tree.  Also works on many composition levels, Jesse nailed this one.
38 - This has the quality of a Rorschach inkblot test in that you can “see” what you want to see, but it is also less boring.  Implies depth in a physical and mental sense.  What lurks under the placid surface?
39 - Bloody surreal landscape with some hints at infrared, especially the sky, and a hint of the “toy box” effect without the shift-focus blur.  (The trees look miniature or like props.)
40 - Besides the obvious; I like the almost solarized quality of this nude.  It invokes radiation or electricity and at the same time marble sculpture.
41 - The seemingly precarious thin building, circling birds and cloudy sky give this one a sense of foreboding.  The street light represents a temporal juxtaposition calling the photo’s era into question.
42 - Was drawn by the distant palms and hand-tinted sky more than the figures in mid-range.  The palms seem like ones you see around an oasis.
45 -  The Chinatown Holga multiple exposure works as a mental image.  The right side of the image especially looks like it could be in a the bubble over a film noire character’s head.
50 - A most photographed building, going back to Steichen; looks like something out of a nostalgic hand-tinted dream. Here's the Steichen:



52 - Love the tonality of this one: red sky, yellow/green escalator and the floating figures.  Has almost a Dante’s Inferno or Fantasia quality about it.  (Souls descending to a deeper part of Hell?  What about the figure in red?)

Out!
« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 10:02:29 PM by rrebold »

Offline angelakleis

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2008, 10:03:02 AM »
Thank you.

Offline Amy

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2008, 06:53:53 PM »
I have to point out something that has been completely overlooked in this thread.

From grllyj:

Quote
Per Jesse's request to talk about the art ...
I am so in love with #29 that I just bought a print.
It is wet and dreamy and clean and simple and sublime!   
If I had wall space - this is an image that I would adore LARGE in my consortium.
Thanks for posting it.

Thank you, grllyj, for noticing this work and for purchasing it! Congratulations to haikstudio.com for making a sale!  :smt023

One of the positive aspects of the online shows is that is bringing the artwork of artdc artists to the forefront and getting attention. Who knows ... if these images hadn't been presented in this spot on the forum, perhaps grllyj wouldn't have noticed the piece she bought.

It's exciting to see more sales of art occur through artdc.org since this is definitely not the first time it has happened.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 07:04:48 PM by Amy »

Offline apres-image

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2008, 09:28:28 AM »
I took a few minutes to look again at my choices and have some brief comments on why I chose them.   Forgive the lack of  eloquence!

#14 A Metro Life –  Edward Hopper should have been a photographer… 

#26 Annapolis Fog – dreamlike, nice composition, draws viewer into the picture.

#37 fotoobsura – the juxtaposition of man made and nature is interesting, reminder that nature will always win.

#38 Chesapeake Bay – seems to move as you look at it, very calming.

#49 Self Portrait (eye) – one of the best fits for the theme

#50 moldy Brownie – right out of “Metropolis” 

#51 National Gallery – one of the best shots of this sculpture I’ve seen, love the color, angles, reflections.

#52 – Red Lady on Top – composition, color, perspective all work here for me.

Offline Gone

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2008, 06:43:13 PM »
OK, I am not a photographer, but I do have a camera with buttons and a battery.  Other than that I do painting mostly and tend to like abstract works, especially more "pure abstract" things.  So that probably shows in my selections.

I think of the show theme as being somewhat abstract and moody.  So that is a great excuse for me to choose images that are somewhat abstract or moody since I like those anyway.
I mostly picked images that are either abstract /random or broken and not immediately identifiable.
I also picked some that are relaxing (to me), and would keep the show from being all one thing kind of look.  Give the eyes a rest from the abstractness.  So some of the quieter images that also fit the moodiness theme.  My comments are mostly very short but just trying to say something about what attracted me to the images.

1 yes Moody, almost there imagery.  Dreamy.
4 yes I like the bold frame over the paler reality.  As if our perception of the scene is more important than the scene it self.
5 yes A little disturbing and almost bland.  But interesting because of that.
6 yes This one made me realize I like dead bugs.  The lines of the wings are nicely formal while the loose arrangement is contrasting.  The 1 bug body reminds that the pretty lines were once part of living critters.
13 yes I like the lines and the waves and the lighting.
16 yes I just like it.  Curvy lines and b/w  with color and abstract and all
21 yes I like the randomness.
22 yes I like the randomness again.
26 yes Peacefull, quiet, nice.
29 yes Relaxing and still interesting.
30 yes Confusing is good.
31 yes Fits the moody feel for the show.
33 yes Just like it.
35 yes Just like it.
36 yes Floats me away.
37 yes Randomness
38 yes Randomness
39 yes Nicely decorated.
40 yes I like the mixture of strong contrasts and subtle tones.
42 yes Quiet and moody.
46 yes More liking.
50 yes Moody strangeness.

Offline BarryS

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Re: Curate our photo show!
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2008, 07:36:23 PM »
Some images I think work well together in a kind of dreamy aesthetic.

#1  delicate and ethereal
#3 like the clouds and otherworldly light quality
#8 darren's work is pretty cool--life through a weird kaledioscope
#24 Michael Janis for some class.  Go see his stuff at Neptune in Bethesda.
#29 melty goodness--no subject needed
#30  go black and white!  go cubism!
#36  bunuel would be proud--just waiting for the razor blade
#37 some interesting postive/negative stuff going on
#39 didn't i see this sleepwalking?
#40 solarized?  like the tones and light and nakedness

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