Author Topic: Suggestions for the next Artomatic  (Read 10839 times)

Offline theartmonkey

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2009, 02:10:57 PM »
So are we talking charge a fee, plus you can't participate in future artomatics? Because if it's not both of those combined, then I think many people would rather just pay the fee than have to work. I know 5 hours of my time is worth more than $33.33, so it would almost be a no-brainer to just not go if there was no other penalty.

Offline BarryS

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2009, 02:52:55 PM »
These are all good points.  The idea of a $100 deposit for all artists is something under consideration, but it wouldn't replace other measures that ensure artists complete their staffing and deinstallation commitments.  The primary goal is to educate artists about how the show works and have them willingly cooperate.  Most artists will do the right thing if they get a clear, consistent (and reinforced) message.  With a show this big, resources are always an issue, so we're looking at how to best use everyone's skills and I'd encourage artists to pitch in with some of the tasks we've been discussing.  You don't have to join a committee to help--you can take on a project of a piece of a project that builds the show. We're going to make it easier to become involved in the show on different levels.
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Offline Erin Antognoli

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2009, 08:36:02 PM »
So are we talking charge a fee, plus you can't participate in future artomatics? Because if it's not both of those combined, then I think many people would rather just pay the fee than have to work. I know 5 hours of my time is worth more than $33.33, so it would almost be a no-brainer to just not go if there was no other penalty.

yeah, i was thinking it would be a combo - in addition to the existing penalties like being banned from future events, there would also be a fine.  something that would allow for the management of each shift to compensate for the lack of attendance in the here and now, rather than having them possibly have to shut down the building or put the art at risk for lack of participation. for instance, if we know people tend not to show up for their shifts on opening or holidays, then sort of plan for that, and take the money to hire security. the $100 was just a number i threw out there because that's what the installation artists pay as a deposit.

i agree with barry though that education and consistency will also help to get the message across that this is what is expected of us, and this is what needs to be done.

Offline PopArt Shooter

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2009, 07:31:09 AM »
Being banned from future events is a smoke screen and has no teeth. Has it ever been enforced?

In order to get the respect of the participating artists, pentalties must be enforced or else they are a joke. If AOM was to actually ban 2-3 people for clearly non compliance, it would get everyones attention. Until that happens and made public on the AOM website ...trying to get volunteers to follow the rules is like herding cats. There are always a select few that think rules don't apply to them or they can weasel their way out of it on a technicality....what tools.
Just ban them and get it over with. 100 bucks is a 100 bucks but a ban from AOM, if it were ever to actually happen (I doubt that it will), is a scarlet letter and a shot at infamy.

Offline BarryS

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2009, 08:45:16 AM »
Oh, there's some teeth--believe me.  The baby teeth are all gone and we have some molars and incisors.  :)  There's been a small number of bans in the past and I think you're going to be surprised at the number of artists banned from participating in the next Artomatic.  We're not looking for an excuse to ban someone, but all artists that significantly violated their agreements will be considered for banning.  We take things on a case by case basis, because we realize there are extenuating circumstances, but artists will be held accountable.

Being banned from future events is a smoke screen and has no teeth. Has it ever been enforced?
...if it were ever to actually happen (I doubt that it will)...
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Offline PopArt Shooter

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2009, 10:07:24 AM »
That's the best news I've heard all day.
Please make sure the banned are called out so that serves as a warning to the others.
Heads on a pike might be a little over the top.

Offline Sean Hennessey

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2009, 10:44:11 AM »
call them out?
no. please don't do that.
theres no need for humiliation of our fellow artists.



Offline PopArt Shooter

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2009, 12:38:40 PM »
I would hardly call those who sign up for Art-o-matic and then make a mockery of it by not showing up for thier shifts and breaking the very agreement that they agreed to when they registered "fellow artists." They disrepect all of us who honor our commitments and fullfil our obligations.

In the words of Susan Hawk:

But if I would ever pass [one of them] along in life and [they] are laying there dying of thirst, I would not give [them] a drink of water. I would let the vultures take [them] and do whatever they want with [them] with no ill regrets.




Offline pillpusher

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2009, 01:21:30 PM »
i like the idea of having the "penalty" for not showing up to a shift - however, i'm a little concerned some people will just do the math in their head that "its $100 plus 3 shifts or $100+$penalty plus zero shifts" and may opt to just "pay" instead of volunteer - leaving us with a volunteer shortage ----- unless we upped the penalty to something pretty high that no one would consider skipping out on ($200 a shift? :) )

i think the artomatic blacklist should be published, but maybe make it anonymous so that people can see the reason why people were banned - however this opens it up to the litigator-types who would use these banned reasons as precedent.... a nightmare for the committee that has to consider the ban.
Wade

Offline BarryS

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2009, 01:55:42 PM »
There is no option for opting out of artist staffing shifts.  The deposit hasn't impacted that for installation artists and it won't for other artists.  Any artist that thinks they can buy their way out of the show will find out in a hurry that it's not possible.
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Offline Erin Antognoli

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2009, 10:25:16 PM »
call them out?
no. please don't do that.
theres no need for humiliation of our fellow artists.


i agree. there's no need to publish names. as long as the artists know that the shifts are mandatory and they have to show up or there will be penalties attached should be enough.

i do like pillpusher's idea, but instead of a list of offenses, could we just have statistics. like, x number of artists were banned from participating in this AOM because they violated the rules, which includes not showing up for their shifts.  just so that they get the picture that this does indeed happen, and that it will happen in the future if shifts are skipped. a lot of us know that the rules / bans are enforced, but the other 90% of artists don't think it's real and that the rules don't apply to them.

plus, how many things can one get banned for? i imagine not following the rules is the most common.

and, again, i said the fine should be in addition to the possibility of being banned from future AOMs and not in place of it. even with a high price tag, many would opt to buy their way out rather than work the shift, and that should not be an option.  i was just thinking a fine would help pay for security on the days / times that are likely to have the most no-shows.

Offline seanwelker

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2009, 10:58:20 PM »
As far as I can recall--and granted, my working knowledge of the list is limited--the number of banned artists from the past ten years is rather paltry. 

Part of that comes from the fact that, in early years, there weren't 1100 visual artists showing up with art to hang.  Another is that, when the scale was smaller, the ability to monitor and police situations was an easier task. 

With the scale of Artomatic being what it is, it's become necessary to set crystal clear guidelines, complete with penalties.  That said, I think it's poor form to call people out.  There's simply no need to make a list of people that aren't invited, especially when the goal is to bring new people into the group. 

On the topic of charging people fees, I think you're all suggesting too low a penalty.  If the goal is to dissuade people from blowing off their shifts, then the financial dig needs to be significant--at the very least, it would need to cover what it would take to hire someone to pull the shift these people are ditching.  I propose that a participant is welcome to buy out of their shift, but it will cost them $300.  That's obviously a huge deterrent from squelching on your shift requirements.  That said, if someone is hellbent on hanging their stuff without showing for their volunteer hours, then it'll cost them a thousand bucks after registration and buying off their three shifts. 

Yes, that's a lot of money.  But if we're reduced to hiring shift workers because people can't be bothered to live up their commitments, then it we ought to bleed the slackers dry.   
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Offline jeananoxley

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2009, 08:43:10 AM »
I think the number of banned artists in the past may have just been because no one had the time or energy to keep up with it throughout the event.

That is not the case this year. We have knocked ourselves out to keep a list of the people who
#1 Didn't show for a shift , We watched if they rescheduled and then followed up to see if they showed up for that shift as well
#2 Did not check out. Just came and got their art and did not do our checkout procedure.
#3 Left the wall in an unacceptable way.

We followed up with all 3 of these categories and gave artists a chance to "make amends" -- It's actually a little sad to me how many people it is that took participating and doing their share in Artomatic this year basically as a joke. And on the other hand, I am really glad that we have this list so that the artists who ARE doing their part don't have to be penalized year after year because of those who don't show up or skate out on their responsibilities to the group.
The list of people to be submitted to be banned is looking to be around 20 people. Names will never be released. The final number however will be released so that other artist can see that yes, we are paying attention to your participation agreement guidelines.

Offline theartmonkey

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2009, 10:01:17 AM »
@jeananoxley:
Sounds like a perfect way to handle it.

Offline TheBenefactor

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2009, 11:46:48 AM »
I'd suggest there be more fun ways people can donate to Artomatic and other art-related organizations.


Offline PopArt Shooter

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2009, 12:45:31 PM »
We could have a bake sale.

Offline iart

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2009, 11:07:31 AM »
i have yet to participate in artomatic- from what i read, you are allowed to participate, as long as you volunteer to be secuirty? is there no security? if not, why is there not a fee to pay for it, as it is important for artists to know that their work is secure.

Offline iart

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2009, 11:32:38 AM »
okay- i just read the rules. rules are rules, i guess.  outing people, isn’t cool- 15 hours is a lot, and i am guessing, forcing artists to volunteer their time as well as their work is the only way it will work? I can see how that is a turn off to a lot of people- and i guess that leaves no room for out of town artists or those with weekend responsibilities, like children, etc. 

One person mentioned that the volunteers look like everyone else- what so they do exactly? and have you looked at the stats to see if you actually need 100% participation from every single artist, should it not be voluntary first? and where does the 99 dollars go- is it for the space? Just curious, i guess even thou I would like to be a person that would happily volunteer for the sake of a good art show, I would also be hesitant realistically with life obligations already in place-  maybe if you lowered the 15 hour min time that would help more artists be able to make the commitment? or is it absolutely needed- or can you find a way to make a better use of the space per volunteer ratio??

Offline BarryS

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2009, 11:44:39 AM »
Artomatic is a cooperative show run by the participating artists and performers.  Artist staff are involved in all aspects of show operations, including monitoring each floor to make sure the art is safe.  Additionally, we have outside security, but the show is too large to be covered by external security staff.  We'd have to charge at least $1000/artist if we wanted to hire outside security to cover the full show and I have some doubts about the ability of hired security to eliminate the small number of thefts that occur.  No artist that had security hardware in place at the beginning of the show had any work stolen.  

Artists are responsible for securing their work and for monitoring the show during their staff shifts.  Personally, I'd like to increase the requirement to four shifts to maintain good coverage.  A cooperative show is not for everyone.  No one is *forced* to do anything--it's your choice whether to accept the responsibilities.  I'm a single dad with two young children.  We have people come from all over to participate.  The registration fee covers a small fraction of the cost to put on the show.  This year we had over 1000 artists participate and we still had a waiting list of artists to get in.  
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Offline Sean Hennessey

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Re: Suggestions for the next Artomatic
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2009, 04:15:30 PM »
there are a million ways to show art in washington dc. AOM is merely ONE WAY. and it is a way with an agenda attached to it.

the agenda is one of helping to nurture and solidify the artistic community of DC. AOM's method of achieving that is having peoples working together to make it happen. so yeah, pretty much that means mainly local, and those that have time to be part of the community. 15 hours is not much time for that goal. not over the 2 months that its possible to volunteer.

its not just a show, but a show with a mission. if a body doenst jive with that mission there are others paths. AOM is big, and its a great show, but its just a small part of dc's art scene.